Progrock
17 posts
Feb 21, 2009
12:33 PM
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I've been working hard at targeting chord tones in my improvosations. In the style I play, which is more hardrock/metal and some shredding type stuff, there is a bit of technical stuff in it.
When I target the tones is sounds ok but I don't have the flashy riffs and runs because I'm trying to concentrate on what tones I'm hitting over what chord. When I just let myself go and not think about what tones I'm hitting I sound a bit better. I'm able to concentrate on more stylistic riffs and runs letting my ear tell me what to hit.
The problem is that I want to have total control. I want to be able to be completely on top of the chord tones while still throwing in all the other stuff. If I throw in some nice long runs I tend to forget what chord is underneath and end up just playing by ear.
So my question is in a progression where the chord changes every couple measures do you concentrate on the tones or do you just let it rip?
P.S. This spamming really sucks!
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Eric E
Moderator
25 posts
Feb 23, 2009
7:00 PM
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Hey Don,
Yes the spamming is really annoying. I know Rich tries to delete it every couple of weeks, but I wonder if the web host can give us some more secure way of access to keep the spammers out.
Anyway, great question. I do both--concentrate on chord tones and also try to rip (not always at the same time). It depends on the song and my comfort level. Players like Frank Gambale and Robert Conti can do both really well. I think the chord tone thing comes with time and it's ok to let it develop slowly. I miight try to target just thirds for a couple of weeks and then try to rip with just the thirds in mind (you'll get it right sometimes and you'll miss sometimes --especially at first, but it will get better). The trick I think is for the chord tone recognition to become more and more automatic. That just takes a lot of repitition. Players like John Petrucci and Greg Howe are also good examples of this. They really worked at arpeggios and chord tones and their soloing is pretty amazing. I would say just work on one chord tone at a time and see what happens in a week or two. You'll probably surprise yourself.
--Eric
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Progrock
18 posts
Feb 24, 2009
8:43 PM
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Hey Eric,
Yea I think I just need to be a little more patient. I'm definatly getting better at it. I just need to give it more time I guess. I'll have to do both practiceing with chord tones and just letting loose and hopefully eventually the two will combine in time.
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Eric E
Moderator
27 posts
Feb 25, 2009
5:28 PM
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I'm sure you will see results more and more Don. Keep up with it. I should try more of the same thing myself.
--Eric
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Eric E
Moderator
28 posts
Feb 27, 2009
4:36 PM
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By the way Don, I just got hired by the Hartford Conservatory to teach jazz guitar. Dave Dana is doing a gig in China, so I'm filling in for him. Joe Carter is coming back in the fall as well.
--Eric
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2009 4:36 PM
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Progrock
19 posts
Feb 28, 2009
8:46 PM
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Cool, Good deal! Glad to hear it! Congrats!
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ChrisDowning
39 posts
Mar 06, 2009
4:34 AM
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There's a nice book specific to this subject called Chord Tone Soloing from the MI range at Hal Leonard. If you email me I'll show you some pages so you can see if it's worth buying. (Yes I know that's an infringement of copyright - don't start on that subject again - I'm just going to show you some page like you were in a shop.....pleeease!)
However most books on soloing cover the subject and you'll find quite a lot of this throughout Rich's series of books. If we speak nicely to him he might even do a 99cent lesson on the subject. Once you have ecthe basic ideas of how to do this, it's mainly down to you, the player, to do the work and sublimate the learning so it becomes more automatice and natural to your playing.
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Progrock
20 posts
Mar 06, 2009
6:28 AM
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Hi Chris,
Thanks! I actually have that one. I totally forgot about it. Last night I dug it out and I'm going to start working with it. Spooky that you mentioned it also. I must be meant to study that book.(ha,ha). Have you used it? If so has it helped you?
I have theory and technique 1,2 and 3. I know it goes over the arpeggios in 2 but could you direct me to where he talks about using them in improvs and targeting chord tones. Thanks again!
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Al
30 posts
Apr 08, 2009
4:54 AM
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Hey Don,
I think that Eric nailed it right on the head. If I can add another thing, I would suggest writing out the chord changes of your metal tunes in a chart. I don't even mean the melody line, I mean just straight changes with whole, half or quarter-note rhythms for each chord.
It's a good way to see what's coming before you get there, but I suppose that depends on how familiar you are with your tune. One of the benefits of doing this is that you will start to recognize the tendencies of chord progressions that Rich talks about.
Playing with a lot of jazz sax players (even though you're playing metal) I've noticed that they practice key center soloing and chord/scale soloing equally. This is something that I started doing too. I suppose in jazz it's a bit more vital since you're changing keys frequently and somethings going over chords in a progressions that don't imply a key center.
I agree Chris, Chord Tone Soloing by Barrett Tagliarino, is a very well written book. Barrett covers diatonic harmony, practice, guide tones and variable harmonic progressions like secondary dominants. There is other stuff as well, the book is a definite winner.
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Eric E
Moderator
32 posts
Apr 08, 2009
7:01 PM
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That's funny. I have the same book, but haven't really worked on it. Maybe I should get into it too.
--Eric E.
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ChrisDowning
46 posts
Apr 10, 2009
12:11 PM
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Hi Progrock - sorry for the time warped reply - yes I've used Chord Tone Soloing and Guitar Soloing by Marlis and Gibert. They go down quite well, but you still need to put in a lot of work as a tutor with the students to get them to understand it all. I've just had delivered a couple of books by Dave Eastlee on chord tones and scales and Jazz chords and scales. These are both basically loads of charts of chords mapped onto CAGED scales - so all the charting is now done. I think this is more a teacher resource or student reference resource. Bit like a scales book but this is an arpeggio + scale book. One is jazz chord patterns v. scales. The other is arpeggios v. scales.
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Progrock
21 posts
Apr 11, 2009
10:17 PM
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Thanks guys for the reply's! I actually took Eric's advice and started just taking one chord tone at a time. It has been working out pretty well!
What I would do is play a progression of say Am,Dm,Em and back to Am. I would then concentrate on nailing the roots and fifths for each chord as they came by. Once I could do this pretty easy with all the chords in the key I would then add in 3rd's. I'm now working on the 7th's and the tension tones one by one.
One of my problems I found was that I tried to focus on too much at one time. Once I did this exercise of taking one at a time and concentrating on that it seemed to start working well for me. I have already started teaching some of my students this same thing. Thanks alot Eric!!!
I also messed some with the chord soloing book although I haven't really dug in deep yet. I like the exercises on starting with some approach tones then nailing the chord tone and playing a few more tones after to make a nice smooth melodic line instead of just starting and stopping the lines when the chords change.
Again, thanks alot guys! Great tips!
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Eric E
Moderator
33 posts
Apr 12, 2009
7:11 PM
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Excellent work Don!
--Eric E.
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ChrisDowning
48 posts
Apr 21, 2009
5:14 AM
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You'll get an ear for doing this over time and have to concentrate on the mechanics much less after a few months of using the chord tone technique.
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