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What are you practicing?
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Eric E
4 posts
Apr 29, 2008
8:38 PM
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I thought I'd start a thread about what we're all currently working on in our practice routines. For the past few years I've been trying to memeorize more tunes (jazz standards for me). There are a few lists floating around the internet listing the "top 100 must-know standards." I usually try to pick one tune at a time and develop a chord melody, some chord and solo ideas and maybe transcribe someone elses solo too. Lately, I've been trying to identify specific chord tones in my solos (like 9ths and 11ths). Those are tricky for me. Rich's suggestion for me for Stella By Starlight freed me up a litle on that tune already.
What are other people working on (other styles, licks, solos, originals)? Particular Guitar College course?
--Eric E
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ChrisDowning
4 posts
Apr 30, 2008
6:42 AM
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I'm doing quite a lot of work with students on trying to get them away from taking only a scales based appraoch to soloing by looking at the old style chord-based approach. So in that approach we look at all the chord notes - 1st 3rd and 5th for a major - and then treat all the other notes of the scale as approch or passing notes. The exercise at 101 level is to start on a 1st (root) or 3rd in each bar and then make sure you finish on a 1st at the end of the bar. It sounds oddly celtic when you do this - but it's aim is to break the habit of running up and down pentatonic scales in ready made patterns. I find this chord based tool develops a good improv ear in the student as well.
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Eric E
6 posts
May 03, 2008
7:42 AM
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Chris,
I like your approach. I’m trying to do similar things: getting students to improvise more from chord tones and melodic ideas rather than scales. I start with scales and arpeggios as a means of learning the right notes to play and then try to move beyond that to thinking melodically. I like your idea of picking a particular tone and starting from there.
--Eric E.
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ChrisDowning
6 posts
May 05, 2008
10:55 PM
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Yes, I find it comes as a bit of a surprise that an arpeggio isn't a single note, bottom to top, rake across the notes of a barre chord. In the early stages of this exercies is sounds strangely celtic - like a Riverdance ballad - but one 7ths, minor 3rds and then 9ths are added things start to get more challenging and interesting. I use the image of stepping stones - the chord tones are the safe, steady stones and what we call all the other notes - passing tones, approach notes, chromatics - these are the red coloured stepping stones that we don't want to rest on. (A teacher at school says he uses the image of railway stations - we stop at the chord tones stations and pass through the others.)
It's just great to be able to get away from the pentatonic riffs that everyone seems to get to early on in their playing.
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I get paid for what I add - not how much I spent on the equipment.
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Al
2 posts
Jun 20, 2008
5:09 PM
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Hi Guys, I've been working on developing some curriculum for spicing up subjects that are equivalent to little kids eating peas and brushing teeth. I saw a great jazz player/author named Sid Jacobs weave diatonic triads over tonal, modal and altered tonalities effortlessly. It was pretty amazing to get such complex sounds from something as simple as root position, first and second inversion tertian triads.
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ChrisDowning
8 posts
Jun 21, 2008
3:45 AM
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Yes, it certainly surprises students who have come to improvising from fitting a scale against a chord sequence. For example a student maybe running up and down a C major pentatonic scale against a chord set of C F G7, and carry on like that for years without exploring anything else (- but at the same time wondering what magical knowledge other players have that makes their solos sound so much more musical.) Then we'll introduce them to a full major or minor scale - then they find out that they can really hit some bum notes with those scales. They either go back to the pentatonics and stall - or they find out what chord tones are all about and how to use the scale and none chord notes as passing tones. I kind of visualise playing over a chord as the chord pattern or arpeggio on the neck in green dots and all the other notes of the scale as hot red dots - so you can linger and stay on a green dot, but all the red ones are hot and you'll want to skip through those and rest on some green ones. Try starting and finishing a bar on green notes (against a chord of C that would be notes that are Cs Gs and Es) and only allowing yourself to play red ones in the midst of the bar (the red notes in the scale of C would be As Bs Ds Fs).
Help me out guys does this all make sense? I'm trying to teach improv in a discussion board room - can you believe that! I need feedback at this point - ha ha.
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Al
3 posts
Jun 21, 2008
12:12 PM
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Hey Chris,
Just curious, do these students have a basis for improv? In other words, are you recommending a key center approach? If you are, disregard the rest because I'm sure your wording is fine. If your students don't use such an approach, I try to make things as simple as possible, for example I'll say:
Your diatonic progression will influence how you hear the scale that your playing on the guitar. This is a paradigm, but it simplifies the reality of what occurs in music. for example:
The C Major Scale:
1. If you play a C major scale with a II-V-I progression in the key of C, the scale is going to sound like C major.
2. If you play that exact C major scale (the notes of the C major scale) exactly as you did before against a repeating II-V (ala Carlos Santana) in the key of C, that scale as your playing it will sound like D Dorian.
3. Again, play that same scale against V (a static dominant chord) in the key of C, your ear is going to hear G Mixolydian.
If you play an A pentatonic scale over:
1. I-IV-V all dominant chords, A pentatonic will sound in context of A major blues.
2. i-iv-v all minor seventh (modal A Aeolian/Minor), A pentatonic will sound in context of A minor blues
3. I-IV-V all C major, A pentatonic will sound like C major pentatonic/ southern rock/country.
It's an oversimplified statement, but something like that. My students at this point have an understanding of diatonic harmony and modes of the major scale, and they're beginning to realize that there are many ways to play within the key center on the fingerboard.
Although I want them to be mindful of the fingerings with a fingerboard system, I want them to really understand the power of manipulating the sound of the fingerings for real musical situations. I know they will eventually learn all the fingerings, but I emphasize navigating the music.
Last Edited by on Jun 21, 2008 12:14 PM
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ResidentRenzo
3 posts
Oct 12, 2008
6:39 PM
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Sorry, I edited my post... you meant GC material? here goes:
"Georgia on my Mind" - beautiful arangement.
"Melodic Minor scales" - still have master it.
"Arpeggios" - I'm doing the arp superimposition thing:
chord is Cmaj7, play Emin7 arp (works the other way too!)
chord is Emin7, I play Bmin7 arp
chord is C7, I play Bbmaj7 arp
Peace,
Renzo
Last Edited by on Oct 14, 2008 6:29 PM
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Grover
Guest
Oct 14, 2008
11:01 AM
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Thats a good point AL. I spent the longest time believing that modes were all about the pattern you played and not the chord progressions that supported them. Partly from buying bad dvd's and cd's from people who obviously could not teach (even if they could play well). I later found out that the patterns are really all one pattern with different start positions, so no matter where you started, if the progressions were I-IV-V, you would be playing in Ionian mode weather you started at the beginning of the E-shaped chord or the C- shaped.
Rich really helped me understand that a little more in depth with his Theory and Techniques course. Right now I'm practicing the scales in groups of 4's and 7's using CAGED fingerings (except E). Since we commonly use E, my body naturally does that one, so I'm practicing doing it using the other patterns to ensure I have a good working knowledge of all the available positions unconsciously.
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ResidentRenzo
5 posts
Oct 14, 2008
6:20 PM
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I just remebered...
Some time ago, I attended a Mike Stern clinic in Mexico City. So, when Mike was explaining scales choices and modes, there was this guy who asked Mike exactly what "scale shapes adn patterns" was he playing, and how he should play them to sound cool. I think Mike chuckled a little...
Rich explained to me once, "modes have their own mood about them" and how he encouraged students to realize modes are not just major scale inversions, try to hear them as different vibes/moods/color within the same key (happy, sad, enigmatic, bizarre).
When comparing modes, it helps to think intervals: "how's #11 different from a nat11 in major chord/scale"? "is a 9th better than a 13th in minor chord/scale"?
Peace,
Renzo
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Al
21 posts
Oct 30, 2008
8:58 PM
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Renzo, I think it's really helpful to also think about music when it comes to modes. For me, music makes as big an impression as theoretical concepts when I'm playing my instrument.
For instance, when I think of certain modes, certain artists and music INSTANTLY come to mind:
Dorian
1. Carlos Santana
2. "Impressions" By John Coltrane, "So What" by Miles Davis
3. "Owner of a Lonely Heart" by Travor Rabin's Yes. (The verses of that song).
4. The Theme from "Halo" by Martin O' Donnell
Mixolydian
!. Funk Music, etc, etc,
Modes have different degrees of usefulness, in other words some modes are more common in composition that others.
To answer your questions about the tensions (9th, 11th and 13th), their use depends on what you're trying to accomplish as a composer. The use of the #11 and natural 11 depends on the notes in the chord that you are constructing.
For example, If there is a major 3rd in your chord, the #11 is typically used because the natural 11 is going to sound very dissonant against that major 3rd. Remember that a 11th is simply a compounded 4th (fa in the next octave above where mi is). The third (mi) and 4th (fa) are a half step apart so when played in unison they sound very dissonant.
The fact that the 4th is compounded doesn't hide that tension If you use a major 3rd in your chord, I recommend raising that 11th a half-step, unless you want to purposely make a bold statement.
Last Edited by on Oct 30, 2008 11:59 PM
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